Geeks and God IRC Transcripts for 10/11/2008

ShropWelcome to the 'geeksandgod' room
13:22 kwang0274 : Huge lag
13:22 manorton_1 : True, a non tech person might bulk at forums, but tech savy or game centric people will take to it like water.
13:22 kwang0274 : I like meet-ups like the G&G conference
13:22 manorton_1 : Might want to figure out some social grouping, but not OG
13:23 zac_in_ak : Rob looks tired...need a nap?
13:23 manorton_1 : Meetups are hard for us in California :) But a good idea
13:23 tgbdad : liking some of the concepts on wireframes for the new d.o.
13:23 zac_in_ak : hopw about online meetups?
13:23 davidlloyd : mike, like social grouping, how so?
13:23 tgbdad : seperating the geek from non-geek right at the front
13:23 tgbdad : but i have no earth-shattering ideas
13:23 tgbdad : not today, anyway
13:23 zac_in_ak : what about Alaska?
13:24 davidlloyd : no, Atlanta!
13:24 manorton_1 : @davidlloyd Possibly more involved profiles and abilities to communicate between users in an idea sharing way. Or just link in tweets
13:24 zac_in_ak : Alaska is far from EVERYWHERE!
13:24 davidlloyd : daytona is cool, near my folks
13:25 zac_in_ak : by
13:25 davidlloyd : l8r
13:25 tgbdad : camera went out. back to loop. bye all.
13:25 kwang0274 : Oh no! Is it over?
13:25 kwang0274 : I didn't even get to say bye
13:26 manorton_1 : Ok all. Rob and Matt, you guys are doing a great job! Keep it up and hang in there.
13:26 tgbdad : later guys!
13:26 manorton_1 : Bye
12:43 connectedgeek : hello
12:48 Shrop : yo
12:50 kjv1611 : I'm sorta here, but won't be around much - mostly recording it on my end... b/c in middle of other things away from PC
12:51 connectedgeek : we are trying to record here too
12:56 kwang0274 : Did I miss anything?
12:58 mojodean : Nothing yet, Kwang. Connectedgeek is still working on getting the live feed setup.
12:58 kjv1611 : Yay!
12:58 kwang0274 : @connectedgeek... you're the man!
12:58 Shrop : Even if it can be recorded somehow for playback later. cool
12:58 kjv1611 : Yeah, the recording would end up being better anyway, I would think.
12:59 kwang0274 : Yeah, I'm perfectly fine with not watching it live. So long as I can watch it later
12:59 Shrop : @connectedgeek are you on site?
12:59 mojodean : @shrop so far @connectedgeek, @rob_feature and I are here, a few others are just unloading their equipment.
13:00 Shrop : thanks @mojodean. Ask Rob if he needs the admin pw for the site
13:00 Shrop : I can't remeber if he has it or not or he can hack a known pw hash in the db
13:00 kwang0274 : Man, I wish I could have been there
13:01 mojodean : @kwang0274 it's a short trip for you, isn't it?
13:01 kwang0274 : NJ to MI -> not that short
13:01 Shrop : i see video from the room
13:01 mojodean : @kwang0274 we were just talking (in person) about how far of a trip it is for you.
13:01 kwang0274 : I'm not getting any audio
13:01 mojodean : @shrop yes indeed you do.
13:02 Shrop : yeah no audio yet, but good job guys
13:02 kjv1611 : same here, no audio..
13:02 kwang0274 : I'm so excited
13:02 kjv1611 : Yeah, at least it's actually up
13:02 kwang0274 : Yeah, we have audio
13:02 kjv1611 : yes, audio
13:03 kjv1611 : we hear ya
13:03 kjv1611 : anything is fine w/us, I'm sure
13:03 mojodean : Geeks run late, it turns out.
13:03 kwang0274 : Being punctual is for nerds and dorks
13:03 kjv1611 : LOL
13:03 Shrop : Rob must have a lav mic on?
13:04 mojodean : @shrop yes indeed
13:04 Shrop : sounds great!
13:06 kwang0274 : Any idea how long this is going to be?
13:08 kwang0274 : Is this going to be a Geeks and God conference reunion?
13:09 mojodean : @kwang0274 we planned on 5 hours.
13:10 avr : hey all...
13:10 avr : i just discovered this last night around 1:30...thanks for doing it!
13:10 mojodean : welcome @avr
13:11 avr : i actually almost thought about making a quick drive from bloomington, IN
13:13 mojodean : @avr Hans drove from Chicago, so you wouldn't have been alone. :-)
13:16 kwang0274 : LOL... Rob is ever the rebel
13:17 kwang0274 : Somehow I don't think information about the bathrooms will help me... haha
13:17 kwang0274 : Go Dion!!!
13:17 Shrop : thanks pastor Dion!
13:18 Shrop : this session is a win for everyone involved. thanks for everyone supporting it including Rob for his heavy lifting and hard work
13:18 Shrop : cool thing is I can go to the bathroom and still watch the session
13:18 Shrop : :)
13:18 kwang0274 : I've created a whole drupal site and I'm a newbie to theming
13:19 kjv1611 : New to theming... know some of the other stuff... not really done much with themes yet..
13:19 kjv1611 : Drupal usage only about 2 months..
13:20 avr : brand new to drupal...started a new web development job and they assigned me 3 drupal sites
13:20 avr : drupal usage: 2 wks
13:21 kwang0274 : That sounds like Micah
13:21 avr : the camera angle is a bit better over at: http://www.connectedgeek.net/content/node/3
13:22 avr : can we get that angle here?
13:22 kwang0274 : I don't think so... I think they've got two different cameras connected to two different computers
13:22 connectedgeek : @avr ?? i dont understand
13:22 avr : makes sense...
13:23 avr : @connectedgeek - the camera angle is straight on
13:23 avr : it's a little easier to see the screen
13:23 connectedgeek : oh
13:23 connectedgeek : sorr
13:23 connectedgeek : sorry
13:23 avr : no biggy
13:23 connectedgeek : bob is streaming on his computer too
13:23 connectedgeek : and the cord is only so long
13:24 avr : will we be able to see bob's computer?
13:24 connectedgeek : on the connectedgeek site
13:24 connectedgeek : is the closest we can get
13:24 connectedgeek : sorry
13:24 kwang0274 : @connectedgeek this is better than nothing
13:24 Shrop : Rob selling himself short.. being modest. the theme rocks
13:25 avr : totally appreciate this
13:25 connectedgeek : np
13:25 avr : even just audio would be great
13:25 kwang0274 : Who's moving the camera?
13:25 avr : so i'm excited to have both!
13:25 connectedgeek : me
13:25 connectedgeek : would you perfer not to move it?
13:26 kjv1611 : Well, this one seems to stream better to me...
13:26 kwang0274 : @connectedgeek No its fine to move it. Its actually helpful
13:26 kjv1611 : The other seems too jumpy
13:26 kwang0274 : @connectedgeek You're a one man show
13:27 Shrop : free sauce on the way
13:27 kwang0274 : I know
13:27 kwang0274 : It gives Drupal all the information about the theme
13:28 kwang0274 : must be
13:28 kwang0274 : how about http://drupal.org/theme-guide
13:29 kwang0274 : For info file info http://drupal.org/node/171205
13:29 kwang0274 : No windows love
13:30 avr : this is great, but i have to move my car!
13:30 avr : ps - text editors
13:30 connectedgeek : http://www.barebones.com/products/textwrangler/
13:30 avr : i'm a mac guy but at work i have to use a pc
13:30 Shrop : textmate FTW
13:30 Shrop : but considering coda
13:31 NonProfit : .info files for themes http://drupal.org/node/171205
13:32 Shrop : phptemplate is not drupal only
13:32 Shrop : drupal has made it very popular though
13:32 Shrop : just use phptemplate :)
13:34 Shrop : you can add new regions in D5, but have to do it in template.php
13:34 Shrop : much easier in D6!
13:38 Shrop : must by a gsm phone in the room. I hear the interference in the audio :)
13:41 kwang0274 : Must be an iphone
13:41 connectedgeek : it was mine i turned it off
13:41 Shrop : @kwang0274 odds are yes
13:41 Shrop : @connectedgeek hehe :)
13:43 avr : going backward to the .info
13:43 avr : there's a little adobe air app that creates .info files for you
13:43 avr : in case it wasn't easy enough
13:43 avr : it let's you just point and click which regions, features, css and js files you want to use
13:44 whereduck : is there a copy of Rob's "stock" phptemplate file somewhere online?
13:44 connectedgeek : i will ask
13:44 avr : i read on his screencast site that he keeps those sort of to himself
13:45 avr : as a business decision - since this is how he makes a living
13:45 whereduck : makes sense...the wizard has to keep some things behind the curtain :)
13:45 Shrop : @avr yeah.. that would rock to have some of his secret snipplets
13:45 Shrop : @connectedgeek thanks for doing the feeds
13:45 kwang0274 : I think that's why some people theme using Zen as a starting point
13:45 avr : but - it's kind of fun to think of coming up with my own 'secret snippets'
13:45 Shrop : understand that :)
13:46 Shrop : I have been using blueprint lately. Pretty nice
13:46 avr : i've made 1 zen and 1 blueprint
13:47 kwang0274 : Is there a good Drupal theming book for Drupal 6?
13:47 avr : i'm finding that just starting from scratch would be way easier
13:47 whereduck : @connectedgeek ..how many people are onsite?
13:47 connectedgeek : about 12 ppl
13:50 whereduck : @connectedgeek thanks for streaming
13:50 whereduck : I am at home in Phoenix, washing dishes and playing with kids
13:50 connectedgeek : http://drupal.org/node/11812
13:50 Shrop : @avr may be easier. I guess it depends on what you are doing in the end and workflow. I have done all three too.
13:50 avr : yeah...
13:51 avr : with blueprint - i tried to changed the embedded "span-12" etc
13:51 avr : in the end, it was easier to just use their reset
13:51 avr : and change the div ids/classes to my own
13:51 avr : and drop the span-# from the theme files
13:52 NonProfit : Page.tpl.php variables http://drupal.org/node/11812
13:53 Shrop : you changed the span-12 in template.php? I have done that too. had to for what I needed.
13:53 avr : yeah...i just dropped their "1 column, 2 column" etc from the template.
13:53 avr : in the end, we're not letting the end user choose the layouts anyway
13:54 avr : 1 main column, 1 sidebar.
13:55 Shrop : Bob is being real right now. That is tue about learning to code.
13:55 Shrop : thanks @avr
13:56 avr : exactly - it's doing stuff that you don't know/want
13:56 Shrop : I agree with that @avr
13:56 avr : it's also been tough to figure out css
13:56 Shrop : its in the theme engine
13:57 avr : when you start with another theme, then try to add you're own...the classes/ids can go on forever
13:57 Shrop : jeff eaton is the master at that.. style sheet only d6 themes
13:57 Shrop : fun deciding when to use IDs vs Classes..
13:58 Shrop : Some one ask Rob how he determines his page width and column widths please
13:58 Shrop : what is the philosophy on that
13:58 Shrop : his philosophy
13:58 Shrop : thanks!
13:59 mojodean : @Shrop no problem man
13:59 avr : how i decide? the designer tells me!
13:59 tgbdad : Found my answer. D6 info http://api.drupal.org/api/file/modules/system/page.tpl.php
14:00 mojodean : @tgbdad thanks for the link. Sorry to cut off your comment
14:00 kwang0274 : Lost audio
14:00 kjv1611 : audio?
14:00 davidlloyd : yep, audio gone
14:00 avr : yea...
14:00 kwang0274 : 1024 x 768
14:00 tgbdad : @mojodean no prob
14:00 kwang0274 : that the resolution Rob uses
14:00 Curt : Me too; no audio
14:00 tgbdad : bob fixing audio now
14:01 kwang0274 : Audio is working in Ustream
14:01 davidlloyd : audio back
14:01 kjv1611 : yeah the other mic is picking up from distance.. but is lower
14:01 Shrop : 10%
14:02 connectedgeek : he will switch back shortly
14:03 tgbdad : from @eaton on twitter: Every time you call a theme function directly, a kitten *dies*. Think about it.
14:04 tgbdad : http://twitter.com/eaton/statuses/804147127
14:04 avr : ?
14:04 Shrop : @tgbdad I remember when he said that.. funny stuff :)
14:07 kwang0274 : an image can be a node
14:08 mattfarina : @kwang0274 Think of a node an an object or type of content
14:09 avr : alright - i'll be back in 15 minutes. quick drive from starbucks to home!
14:09 mattfarina : an image can be part of a node
14:09 kwang0274 : @mattfarina that is true
14:11 mojodean : @shrop what do you use for a clip library?
14:12 Shrop : @mojodean I have been using http://snipplr.com/users/shrop/
14:12 Shrop : There is a textmate plugin so I can pull from the snipplr API as needed.
14:12 Shrop : It is nice because I can share my code or make stuff private if it isn't really mine or whatever.
14:14 kwang0274 : Is there a good photoshop clone for cheap people who don't want to pay for photoshop?
14:14 Shrop : @kwang0274 nothing really replaces photoshop, but check out gimp
14:14 Shrop : opensource
14:15 kwang0274 : @shrop gimp doesn't really do photo creation and stuff like that
14:15 Shrop : http://www.gimp.org/
14:15 Curt : I use Paint Shop Pro, now from Corel, but it's not a photoshop clone
14:15 Shrop : nope you are right
14:16 Shrop : @Curt commercially, that is probably the best alternative on win32
14:16 kwang0274 : Time to dip into the savings account
14:17 Shrop : I bet Rob wouldn't want to do this in front of people everyday.
14:17 Shrop : dang!
14:18 Gaelen : would photoshop elements be any good?
14:18 Shrop : Actually, D6 defaults with caching on.. it annoys me everytime!
14:18 tgbdad : i've used gimp for this. hence the ugly sites. hehe.
14:18 kwang0274 : Oops... the cache'll get you everytime
14:18 Shrop : sorry @Rob_Feature
14:18 davidlloyd : PSE gets on my nerves 'cuz I want 2 do more
14:18 davidlloyd : better off with Gimp or GimpShop
14:19 davidlloyd : GimpShop is Gimp with changes to be more PS like
14:19 Gaelen : so PSE for web design isn't really worth it?
14:19 kwang0274 : When should one use a margin and when should one use padding?
14:20 Curt : Padding is inside the border, margin is outside
14:20 Gaelen : margin pushes on the outside of the border and padding pushes on the inside of the border.
14:22 kwang0274 : Thanks guys for that info
14:24 kwang0274 : Aww man... time to go home... see you all later
14:25 avr : i'm back...
14:25 connectedgeek : bye
14:26 Shrop : be back in a bit. helping my daughter with math homework
14:26 connectedgeek : http://alistapart.com/
14:26 tgbdad : @kwang Try this CSS cheat sheet. http://www.addedbytes.com/cheat-sheets/css-cheat-sheet/
14:26 avr : quick question - how many people in this chat are actually in the room?
14:27 tgbdad : I have this stapled to the wall by my desk at work
14:30 avr : is that method than text-indent: -9999px?
14:30 Radigar : can i boardcast a tv chanel in my mogulus chanel??
14:30 avr : sorry...method "better"
14:32 avr : can someone ask him about using "text-indent" for the h1 a
14:32 tgbdad : @avr will do
14:32 avr : lost audio
14:33 connectedgeek : check again
14:33 tgbdad : ok, another battery dead
14:33 avr : there we go...
14:34 avr : it's working
14:34 Curt : 3 4
14:34 whereduck : that's it
14:34 avr : @tgbdad - did i miss the answer when the audio dropped?
14:35 tgbdad : @avr restarting now
14:35 avr : perfect...
14:36 mojodean : @tgbdad do you have a default style-css file?
14:36 tgbdad : @mojodean not yet. I've been working from basic theme
14:36 mojodean : @tgbdad I'm finding Garland/Zen have huge CSS files, more than necessary it seems
14:36 tgbdad : http://drupal.org/project/basic
14:37 tgbdad : Want to get back to doing my themes from scratch
14:38 mojodean : @tgbdad are you fluent in CSS?
14:40 tgbdad : @mojodean I can read it fluently. ;-)
14:41 tgbdad : for writing I is slow and stutter a lot
14:41 davidlloyd : CSS becomes easier with use. Cross-browser issues and testing is what's painful 4 me
14:42 avr : @david - aggreed on the cross browser
14:42 avr : the whole ie 6
14:43 davidlloyd : even ie7 gives some problems but less than 6, webkit is easy, FF2 not bad but all have differences
14:43 avr : yeah...i think background image positioning the biggest for me
14:44 avr : when making nav '***ons' and rolovers using css
14:44 avr : funny - it removed b-utt from ***ons
14:45 davidlloyd : @avr yep and FF3 is causing me problems right now on nav b.u.t.t.ons
14:45 davidlloyd : has a different pad/margin than FF2 in some places
14:45 avr : for those who care - texas 30, ok 28...start of 4th quarter
14:54 mojodean : thanks @avr
14:56 tgbdad : hey, everyone here at SMWL that's in this chat room, you can turn off the stream and stay in the chat room.
14:56 tgbdad : Bandwidth is getting bad.
14:57 mojodean : @tgdbad good call.
14:59 mojodean : turned video off since I'm here. Anyone else here at the church having bandwidth issues?
15:00 connectedgeek : i am probably eating it all up
15:00 connectedgeek : sorry
15:00 connectedgeek : :)
15:00 avr : i just stepped away - i think i wanted to hear that part about module theming
15:00 tgbdad : @connectedgeek no, that' not a problem.
15:00 tgbdad : keep streamin' man.
15:00 tgbdad : but a lot of us are watching the stream so we can chat. killing that off has helped.
15:01 tgbdad : also, we're probably surfing around too much while we should be paying attention. hehe.
15:03 tgbdad : whoa. Shrop must have radar.
15:03 mojodean : indeed.
15:04 tgbdad : came back just in time for bob to pick on ya.
15:04 Shrop : what happened?
15:04 Shrop : :)
15:04 mojodean : and with the delay, he may have heard i.
15:07 avr : i couldn't see...what did he mean by altering the database?
15:08 avr : did he just mean that typed in different content?
15:08 Shrop : here
15:08 mojodean : @avr yes
15:08 Shrop : he can do whatever he needs to do.. dev site
15:09 avr : man that delay is killer
15:10 avr : still loving every minute - no complaints
15:11 avr : by the way - tx 38, ok 35 (that's college football)
15:11 Shrop : please get rid of the smoke ring of fire junk!
15:14 avr : question...if somebody can listen and type...
15:15 avr : earlier rob said that he had an 'if' statement in the page.tpl file
15:15 avr : something that was, "if it's not a node, display the ***le"
15:16 avr : what's the logic
15:17 avr : i understand what happened, i was just wondering about the php markup
15:23 linda loo : can't handle all this excitement!
15:25 linda loo : i just wanna know when we get the BBQ sauce!
15:25 mojodean : @linda loo agreed!
15:26 linda loo : just don't leave me out it there's a geek after party @mojodean!
15:26 mojodean : haha sure thing @linda loo @twebner and I will keep you in the loop
15:27 linda loo : thanks! off to the park w/ @roscoe_feature & babe
15:28 Shrop : godaddy.. kills me!
15:30 avr : can't quite see the screen...what's the drupal stock class?
15:30 avr : nevermind
15:34 Shrop : yo
15:34 Shrop : sure
15:34 Shrop : not sure, but I can dupe the changes manually as needed
15:39 Shrop : 5
15:39 mojodean : thanks @Shrop. You're answer is 30 seconds late, but it's not your fault.
15:39 Shrop : D7 will have much more of cck
15:39 Shrop : hehe
15:42 Shrop : yeah.. i updated cck and views RCs this week to the latest..
15:43 mojodean : Num 5 Tex beats Num 1 Okc 45-35 in football
15:49 avr : with imagecache and imagefield, is there a way to browse previous uploaded images?
15:50 Shrop : gotta roll guys.. have fun!
15:53 connectedgeek : see ya
15:55 avr : name it node-blog.tpl.php
15:56 avr : a question just in chat - no need to ask out loud.
15:57 avr : is there a way using print_r(?) to print out the available fields from cck
15:57 avr : i mean the fields that you've added
15:58 avr : nevermind - i think this is the answer
15:58 avr : can somebody paste the snippet in the chat?
16:02 tgbdad : print_r($node)
16:02 tgbdad : wrapped in tags tags
16:04 avr : can you also share the print $node->? example?
16:06 avr : also - another question. is there a print_r command to print out the available objects for a "view" (maybe that's coming in a bit).
16:09 avr : M j
16:10 tgbdad : link @mattfarina threw out: php.net/date
16:12 avr : can you repeat: timestamp, 'custom' etc...or type out the final markup
16:42 avr : anybody on the print_r(?) for views...
16:48 avr : it's still working!
16:58 avr : what's that site link?
16:59 connectedgeek : vocal0.org
16:59 connectedgeek : ooops
16:59 connectedgeek : vocalo.org
17:01 skylenewman : i came in late. will the entire presentation be available somewhere?
17:02 connectedgeek : yes
17:02 connectedgeek : at this site later today
17:02 skylenewman : sweet! thanks connectedgeek.
17:03 connectedgeek : or ustream.tv/channel/connectedgeek
17:11 avr : to see a views' available variables: drupal_set_message('');');
17:11 avr : never mind...a bunch of stuff got dropped
17:12 avr : maybe i missed it...did he say anything about how to see previous images that have been uploaded through imagefield/cck
17:13 avr : so that somebody can reuse the image on a different post
17:13 avr : different node
17:13 avr : ps...no more audio
17:13 anonymous_1 : did anyone else lose sound?
17:13 Curt : Yes, I thing Bob shut off his mic
17:13 tgbdad : audio coming back now
17:14 avr : which module?
17:15 avr : for the solution?
17:15 connectedgeek : asset
17:15 tgbdad : asset
17:15 avr : thanks
17:15 tgbdad : haha
17:20 avr : the point of nirvana...
17:20 avr : i was given three sites to integrate into drupal 2 weeks ago
17:21 avr : this really REALLY helped move me toward understanding
17:21 avr : thanks a TON for taking the time and energy and effort to stream this
17:21 connectedgeek : you're welcome
17:21 connectedgeek : thanks for joining!
17:21 avr : p.s. i just recently left full-time ministry and am transitioning into web development
17:22 avr : so...i'm really excited to find a group who share similiar background/interest
17:23 connectedgeek : good luck!!
17:23 avr : and...thanks for asking some of the questions out loud
17:23 connectedgeek : np
17:25 avr : this is still interesting/helpful - thanks for keeping the stream going
17:37 connectedgeek : http://googlesystem.blogspot.com
17:39 avr : thanks!
17:39 kjv1611 : just got back... thanks all.